Because i was trying to make a point, but whatever...

Yes, you and I both.

I'll just take this moment to point out that the secular murderous bastards in question were/are hardcore ideologues. Insofar as I'm concerned, ideology is indistinguishable from religion.

It's also worth pointing out that while ideology can inspire the evil behaviour we're talking about, LACK of ideology has never been the inspiration for it so far as I can tell.

Now would the athiests in the room PLEASE avoid knee jerk anti-religious sentiments and acknowledge the situation is a lot less clear cut than "zomg religion = EVILZ"?

Who said I was implying that religion is evil? I was pointing out that it's foolish and naive/ignorant to say that secularists/atheists are the primary cause of evil or what not. Which, is what I infered was being implied.

At what point did I imply in any way that secularists or atheists are the primary cause of evil BEFORE you and "infidel" brought up the theory that religion is the culprit?

My article points the finger solely at self-proclaimed followers of a religion, it had nothing to do with secularists or atheists.

Then you and "infidel" brought up the idea that "religion" is to be blamed.

I tried to keep the focus on the victims, the Christians, by pointing out that they are victims both in the Islamic world as they are in secular societies. That's why I mentioned China.

This article was not about Islam, not about China, not about religion or secularism being more evil, it was SOLELY and ONLY about persecuted Christians, who are persecuted for their religion. I just wanted to write about the victims, not accuse any belief system, not even communism.

I quoted the part about Iran and Saudi-Arabia because they persecute Christians, NOT because they are Muslim countries. I could have made the same point if the story was set in China and I knew more about China.

Some countries persecute Christians because they are Christians, and those countries are secular or religious. The common theme is the persecution of Christians.

What were they?

Hitler was crazy and a religion of one. Religion is the number one reason how normally sane people justify mass murder.

Only because they didn't have the modern war machines that Mao or Stalin had.  Not to mention populations were far smaller and more spread out back then. Do you not believe that if radical Islam possessed the means to wipe America and Israel from the map they would do so?

My point was that in the article you quoted, the victims were guilty of converting from one religion to another.

Most likely they weren't Christians.  If they were, then they were very very bad Christians.  They weren't following their leader, who was peaceful and taught us to be as well.  They were doing their own thing.  Can't help the fact that some call  themselves Christians giving Christianity a bad name. 

Jesus said the world will know us by our love.  So to me that says, no love, no evidence. 

I agree. Just like Fred Phelps.

yep

Fred Phelps and others like him seem to be stuck too much on the Old Testament instead of the New.

I also believe that if the secular PLO possessed the means to wipe America and Israel from the map they would do so.

And I don't want to repeat what I already wrote about religion and violence Just re-read my earlier comments.

Exactly.

The violence they committed they committed for themselves, not for G-d or Jesus. The same type of people will find any excuse for violence.

"Homosexuals and Jews dominated Nazi Germany... just as they now dominate this doomed U.S.A... The Jews now wander the earth despised, smitten with moral and spiritual blindness by a divine judicial stroke... And God has smitten Jews with a certain unique madness, whereby they are an astonishment of heart, a proverb, and a byword (the butt of jokes and ridicule) among all peoples whither the Lord has driven and scattered them... Jews, thus perverted, out of all proportion to their numbers energize the militant sodomite agenda... The American Jews are the real Nazis (misusers and abusers of governmental power) who hate God and the rule of law."

Yeah, really stuck too much on the Old Testament.

Why do you believe anything he says?