I have moved this discussion to: https://forums.joeuser.com/360111

[quote]I have moved this discussion to: https://forums.joeuser.com/360111[/quote]

WTF? This isn't your thread and the link doesn't work.

If you're going to pray to a beer, I think it should at least be St. Pauli Girl.

I didn't move the whole discussion (as was stated its not my thread) what I moved was the current discouse.  https://forums.joeuser.com/360111

Leauki can also voice his angst against me for moving the current discourse to another location and if he does I'll apologize. I felt that it was moving away from the topic that he intended, so I made a new thread in a more appropriate location under philosophy.

If I create a world, for example, Sim City, which I interact with in ways that seem natural to the beings within the world, I am extranatural to that world, but I am not a supernatural being in the world unless I choose to be.

Magic is supernatural, by definition. But a god who doesn't interact with the world in ways that contradict the laws of nature is not supernatural.

A creator of a world is always from outside the world. The process of creation, however, is not supernatural because the world and its (natural) laws don't exist until creation is done.

I have no problem with this and will try to make further comments on the subject on your thread.

Thanks.

@ The people's party:

The link doesn't work.

How could something external interact with the natural world without violating the laws of nature? Even if the violations aren't noticable to the occupants, they're still violations, aren't they? Or is the distinction that the extra natural force doesn't cause violations to occur, but set those natural laws in motion?

You have to copy that link and replace the one in your browser with it.

Link works for me.

Yes.

I believe that the Creator created a world that contained laws that would eventually reveal some of the Creator's words, paraphrased by those who can detect them.

If I create a map for the game Doom and hide a message to players behind a secret door which I have programmed to open after, say, 5000 years of playing or 1000 years after players first find the area I can interact with the world without violating its natural laws. (I can even change the message according to what I see before the first creature opens the door.)

When atheists say that the good laws in the Bible are "obvious" and do not need G-d to become law, this is why. They are obvious: Don't murder. But they are only obvious because the Creator created a world in which they are.

Deism?

Deism is a form of theism that acknowledges a god creator who doesn't interfere with creation any more.

I believe in a creator who still interferes in the sense that we can still hear him.

Deists are, however, not atheists despite the fact that they do not believe in the supernatural.

Leauki, I liked your Sim City analogy.  That's a good game.  Interesting yet it couldn't hold my attention for long hours.  I liked Sim City 2000, but there was only so much I could take (for 2000 the scenarios were really good) then it was the eventual dooms day of disasters break out.  It would be nice if they added a zombie disasters (grant it you couldn't see it break out) or 4 horseman of the Apocalpyse disaster. 

Sorry this has nothing to do the current discussion.

I bought Sim City 4 and then noticed, as with Civilisation 4 and some form of Worms, that wouldn't run without the game DVD in the drive and even then would run only in fullscreen.

Since I feel no reason to go look for the DVD whenever I want to play few minutes and do nothing else on my computer while I am playing, I never played it.

If I play slow games like Sim City or Civ without doing at least one other thing on the computer I get bored from information underload. I usually play a strategy game, watch a DVD or listen to a podcast, read Web articles, read newsgroups, and reply to emails all at the same time. It distracts me while I am working on a program.

But game vendors these days don't seem to get this style any more.