A Leauki's Writings
Culture of nation against nation of culture
Published on April 23, 2005 By Leauki In War on Terror
"If the US had invaded, say, Bolivia - Osama bin Laden would have completely ignored it. And those who would have claimed invading Bolivia had nothing to do with the War on Terror would have been correct." - Michael J. Totten

World War I was simple. It was the last great war between nations, each fighting for their own interests. There was no objective good or evil (although individual actions can be perceived as either) and there were no obvious philosophical alliances (the Entente Cordiale could just as well have not happened).

Yet World War I, so I believe now, has been the root of the next three great wars. It has been not necessarily the cause but very clearly the trigger for three even greater conflicts that were to follow. And I will also argue that these three conflicts were not different conflicts but three instances of the same disease, the same meme, if you so will, that has befallen humanity and will not go away unless eradicated wherever it made itself known.

But it will be forgotten.

It would be convincing to say that the disease is the belief that one race or nation is superior to another.

The Emperor of Ethiopia, Haile Selassie, a wholly remarkable man, has already made that point. His country was one of the first victims of the disease when Italy attacked Ethiopia in 1935.

"The very refinement of barbarism consisted in carrying ravage and terror into the most densely populated parts of the territory, the points farthest removed from the scene of hostilities. The object was to scatter fear and death over a great part of the Ethiopian territory. These fearful tactics succeeded. Men and animals succumbed. The deadly rain that fell from the aircraft made all those whom it touched fly shrieking with pain. All those who drank the poisoned water or ate the infected food also succumbed in dreadful suffering. In tens of thousands, the victims of the Italian mustard gas fell." - Haile Selassie in the League of Nations, 1936

The disease in question is the philosophy or idea of pan-nationalism. This idea goes hand in hand with delusions of superiority yet it is, unfortunately, compatible with other powers pursuing the same goals.

The principles of pan-nationalism are extremely simple:

1. Unite all members of your nation in one country, not by moving them there but by invading and taking over all lands and regions where members of your nation live, once did live, or that are simply needed as resources.

2. Exterminate all minorities (i.e. members of other nations) living in the area now ruled.

3. Find that some of your nation live or that needed resources are outside the area.

4. Repeat.

This simple program has ruled huge areas of the world in the last 80 years. Agents of the pan-nationalist program include Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Japan in the first half on the 20th century, the United Arab Republic (Egypt and Syria in 1960) and other pan-Arabist nationalists, including religious pan-Arabists, and the Soviet-Union.

Russia has always pursued a pan-Slavist strategy, trying to rule over all Slavs in Europe and thereby uniting several peoples and languages under one ruler. Whether or not the Slavs are one people or several as a fact is beside the point. There is no answer. But whether nationalism in Slavic countries appears as patriotism (based on and connected to the culture of one specific country) or pan-nationalism is the important question.

Poland is a very patriotic country. Polish nationalism is based on patriotism. Russian influence was accepted as a matter of fact but rejected when possible because Poland saw its culture as different from Russia's. Most countries of the former Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact now pursue strategies based on the principles of patriotism and co-operation with other European countries. Such co-operation in the European Union is based on common interests and the fact that one happens to live in the same region as one's neighbours; it is not based on pan-nationalism. The European Union is, or could be, the anti-thesis to the Soviet Union.

Communism was the reason the Soviet Union failed but it was not why the Soviet Union expanded. Stalin's pact with Hitler was not because of communism. Stalin's slaughtering millions of people was not because of communism. Hitler did not attack the Soviet Union because of communism. Hitler attacked the Soviet Union when it was clear that pan-nationalist interests of the two powers in central and eastern Europe clashed. And Stalin made a pact with Hitler when it presented a good chance to expand and take back what was once Russian and lost in World War I.

The Soviet Union was of course born in World War I.

Hitler failed when American and British forces resisted his rule of Europe and broke his power. But this was not before half of France fell into the trap of co-operation and not before millions were killed, among them Jews and Gipsies, omnipresent minorities in Greater Germany.

Italy, after trying to recover what was once the Roman Empire, came to its senses a bit earlier. The futile hunt for the old empire came to an end. And for a while it looked as if pan-nationalism was dead until two new heads of the snake appeared.

The Soviet Union, now a victorious world power, began to manifest itself in eastern Europe. The old Tsarist pan-slavism finally came to be when a new Russian empire ruled, with few exceptions, all Slavic peoples and countries. Eventually communism as a philosophy took over as an excuse, allowing an expansion beyond the borders of the past. One particular such expansion just happened to clash with another instance.

Afghanistan.

The second head was the philosophy of pan-Arabism. Unite all Arabs in one country was the idea, and several great dictators tried to achieve the goal. Most notable are Gamal Abdel Nasser, who united Egypt and Syria and got famous for not managing to connect the two countries on land, and Michel 'Aflaq, founder of the Ba'ath party, a party with similar goals (Michel ‘Aflaq was a Christian). Another popular player is Muammar Abu Minyar al-Qaddafi, dictator of Libya, who was once a strong advocate of pan-Arabism but has since decided that he would rather play the regional co-operation theme, with Libya being an African country rather than a part of an Arab empire.

"Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us." - Golda Meir

Arabs do not hate Israelis or Jews. But pan-Arabists hate Jews. They hate Jews, and Kurds, and black Christians, and possibly Iranians and Arabs who simply have a slightly different faith.

Palestinians do not have a country because the propaganda and common theme of Arab wars against Israel was not freedom for the Palestinian people but unification of all Arabs. The Jews were not occupying a country named Palestine with a Palestinian population, they were a non-Arab minority in the area. And Jews in Israel as well as other countries in the area suffered the fate of minorities living in the target area of a pan-nationalism franchise.

The Arab world as it is, of course, is a result of World War I. But a mistake it was probably not, dividing the Ottoman empire as it was done. Apart from maybe a Kurdish home land, which wasn't created, and a Jewish home land, which was, any further borders separating non-Arab or non-Muslim populations from the majority would probably have resulted in several invasions anyway (as happened in Israel).

One of the non-Arab countries that became a target for Arab nationalism and thus a part of the area was Afghanistan. There Arab nationalism clashed with Russia's expansionism. the result was more or less a defeat for Russia and Afghanistan, and then, finally, when the Americans and British invaded, the Arabs.

The Nasserites were earlier beaten by Israel and the Ba'athists took control of Syria and Iraq. Syria then took control of Lebanon and attempted to take over Jordan, an Arab kingdom with a king who participated when he had to but did not show much enthusiasm for pan-Arabist ideals. Both moves were opposed by Israel, and Jordan was indeed saved.

Iraq became one of the centres of pan-Arabism when Saddam Hussein supported anti-Israel terrorism and attacked Iran (which is not Arab). When after nearly ten years of war Iraq suddenly turned towards Kuwait, an ally in its war against Iran, the beginning of the end of pan-Arabism was triggered.

Suddenly other Arab countries realised that pan-Arabism involves a great danger. Saudia Arabia and the gulf nations were very frightened. They were so frightened that the Americans and British were allowed to solve their problem for them. Thus happens Gulf War II and Iraq is driven out of Kuwait.

The immediate result is that Kuwait changed sides. No longer pan-Arabist, Kuwait supported the west, its best and only defence against the dangers of pan-Arabism. The "Palestinian cause" lost sympathy when pan-Arabism showed its real face. And Saddam was eventually removed from power in 2003.

What is most remarkable, I think, about these events is not that they were all triggered by World War I in one way or another, although that is in itself a remarkable coincidence; but the support the instances enjoy among people in the democratic world.

Even now there are supporters of Nazi Germany and very prominent are, of course, the so-called war protesters, who seem to protest any war against pan-Arabism but not any other. It is often believed that wars can be avoided by staying away from them, but the history of pan-nationalism shows that the opposite is true.

The Kurds did not attack the Arabs but Saddam attacked them anyway. The United Kingdom did think that war with Germany could be avoided but history has shown that it could not.

If there is one thing we can learn from the history of pan-nationalism it is that pan-nationalism, if not attacked, will itself attack.

And nobody is out of reach.

It merely takes longer for some targets.




Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 26, 2005
Diamondback,

you have a weird definition of "nationalism". I believe what you mean is a "democratic nation state".

And who said pan-nationalism wasn't imperialist? Whether it is or not has nothing to do with my definition of it. And where does the idea of "who don't see themselves as one people" come from? The majority of Germans in World War 2 certainly saw themselves as one people. And most Arabs appear to think of themselves as one nation too, especially when they refer to the "Arab nation".

on Apr 26, 2005
I use nationalism as it is typically understood:

na·tion·al·ism (nãsh'ə-nə-lĭz'əm, nãsh'nə-)
n.
Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.
na'tion·al·ist adj. & n.
na'tion·al·is'tic adj.
na'tion·al·is'ti·cal·ly adv.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2004, 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


Politics nationalism

The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination.


Nationalism is opposed to colonialism and imperialism.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition Edited by E.D. Hirsch, Jr., Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil. Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin. All rights reserved.


If nationalism is opposed to colonialism and imperialism, and pan-nationalism is a form of imperialism, then wouldn't that make pan-nationalism an oxymoron?



The majority of Germans in World War 2 certainly saw themselves as one people. And most Arabs appear to think of themselves as one nation too, especially when they refer to the "Arab nation".


But Germany was one political state going back to 1871, when all the various principalities were united. A German leader believing that Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Dutch, and English should be become unified people under one Germanic (as in the branch of the Indo-European family) government, most certainly headed by a German, that would be pan-nationalism, and it would be imperialistic, too. The Arab world hasn't been united under and Arab government since the early days of Islam. Caliphates and emirates and Turkish Sultanates have come and gone. When people start advocating pan-Arabism, it's almost always done from the position that they should be the ones who oversee it. Iraqi pan-Arabism was centered around Iraqi domination of a pan-arab state. Egyptian pan-Arabism with Egypt as leader, Libyan with Libya, and so on.

I thought this was an interesting fact concerning the Syrian Ba'ath party in the late 50's and early 60's:

Ba'ath party (bä'äth) , Arab political party, in Syria and in Iraq. Its main ideological objectives are secularism, socialism, and pan-Arab unionism. Founded in Damascus in 1941 and reformed, with the name Ba'ath, in the early 1950s, it rapidly achieved political power in Syria.
In 1958—with one of its founders, Salah al-Din Bitar, as foreign minister—it led Syria into the ill-fated United Arab Republic (UAR) with Egypt. The Ba'athists, like most other Syrians, quickly came to resent Egyptian domination, and the Ba'athist members of the union government resigned in Dec., 1959. Syria withdrew from the UAR in 1961.

Encyclopedia.com - Ba'ath Party



on Apr 27, 2005
"If nationalism is opposed to colonialism and imperialism, and pan-nationalism is a form of imperialism, then wouldn't that make pan-nationalism an oxymoron?"

I don't get it.

It was you who claimed that pan-nationalism is a form of imperialism. That was not an undisputed fact and not a part of my discussion at all. It was also you who found that nationalism is opposed to imperialism, yet you insist that pan-nationalism is imperialism. So you see a contradiction. But what does this have to do with my argument?

Perhaps, if nationalism is not imperialism, this means only that neither is pan-nationalism?

"But Germany was one political state going back to 1871, when all the various principalities were united."

In 1871 only parts of what was considered Germany plus Prussia (which was technically not German) was united. This was referred to as the smaller solution, with the greater solution being unification with Austria (and possibly Hungary, like Prussia not German).

Hitlers first objective, apart from exterminating minorities, was to unite all Germans in one country, including Austria (which he annexed), Bohemia (which the world gave him the German part of, he later took the rest), and Poland (which was inhabited by many Germans).

This is a classic example of my definition of pan-nationalism which is based on repetition of exactly these points:

1. Unite all members of your nation in one country, not by moving them there but by invading and taking over all lands and regions where members of your nation live, once did live, or that are simply needed as resources.

2. Exterminate all minorities (i.e. members of other nations) living in the area now ruled.

This is clearly a form of nationalism. If it isn't imperialism, that's fine with me. I didn't call it such.

"Ba'ath party (bä'äth) , Arab political party, in Syria and in Iraq. Its main ideological objectives are secularism, socialism, and pan-Arab unionism."

Yet you do not believe that such a policy is possible?

on Apr 27, 2005

Germany plus Prussia (which was technically not German)

I understand that after the First World War, Poland got most of Prussia, but Prussia was pretty much German from about the 7th century, when the German tribes conquered it.  I am a bit baffled as to why you would not call it German.  Understanding that it did have a large Polish population.

Just curious.

on Apr 27, 2005
Dr Guy:

I was referring to the legal meaning of the German unification. Legally Prussia was not German, which is why a prince of the Holy Roman Empire (until 1806) could be king of Prussia (you could not be king of a land inside the empire). Ethnically Prussia was also different from Germany but later got mixed. The old Prussian language was replaced by German in the 1700s.

German tribes (rather an organised order sent by the Holy Roman Emperor) invaded the baltic lands earlier and lost all but Prussia, which then expanded westwards towards Germany.

Prussia had thus the same status as Hungary and England. All three had kings who were also princes (and in Hungary's case the emperor) of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation) but were NOT German. The fact that Prussia spoke German after the 18th century is a coincidence.

on Apr 27, 2005
It was you who claimed that pan-nationalism is a form of imperialism. That was not an undisputed fact and not a part of my discussion at all. It was also you who found that nationalism is opposed to imperialism, yet you insist that pan-nationalism is imperialism. So you see a contradiction. But what does this have to do with my argument?


Nationalism is an exclusive ideology. It is an ideology that says "for us, not them." The prefix Pan- means "all-encompassing," and therefore not exclusive. Let's go back to the Slavs again. If all Slavic speakers felt their primary cultural identification was Slavic, rather than Pole/Russian/Slovak/Serb/etc., then a movement to unite them wouldn't be an example of pan-nationalism, it would be nationalism. Why? Because that's what nationalism is--the political union of people who see themselves as one people. Serbian attempts to block the independence of Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia were wonderful examples of how pan-nationalism is really imperialism. Then it further degenerated into ethnic cleansing and holy war and all sorts of really bad stuff. Serbia tried to say, "We are all Yugoslavs," but nobody else thought so. Once independence was declared, it became a land grab.

Hitler's Germany is a little different. The annexation of German-speaking lands may or may not have been anti-nationalist. It depends on what the people of the territory were clamoring for. Certainly the German Swissweren't about to submit to the Reich. Hitler interest, however, was absolutely a colonialist. He wanted the vast plains of the Slavic countries to Germany's east, where grain could be grown. His belief was that Germany was always at risk so long as it could not provide food and resources for its own people. It wasn't a new belief. Germans had long viewed expansion to the east as desireable. The goal was to take the land and replace the Slavs with Germans. Any way you cut it, it wasn't nationalism.

1. Unite all members of your nation in one country, not by moving them there but by invading and taking over all lands and regions where members of your nation live, once did live, or that are simply needed as resources.2. Exterminate all minorities (i.e. members of other nations) living in the area now ruled.


The problem in number 1. is that A. it makes no allusion as to who the members of the nation are and whether those people care to become part of the unified state and B. invading land where you once lived and where other people currently live is imperialistic.

In number 2., exterminating the people of other groups, especially when they may very well make up the majority of a territory cannot sit with nationalism. It's imperialism at its worst: genocide.

The inevitable question in nationalism is who is part of the nation. If the US annexed all of Canada except Quebec, would you call that nationalism or imperialism. Would it be pan-nationalism?

What if Anglo-Canada was calling for statehood?

What if the Canadian people resisted the move?


"Ba'ath party (bä'äth) , Arab political party, in Syria and in Iraq. Its main ideological objectives are secularism, socialism, and pan-Arab unionism."

Yet you do not believe that such a policy is possible?


Based on history so far? No, I don't. Syrian and Iraqi Ba'athism didn't get along. Syrian and Egyptian unity didn't work. Libyan pan-Arabism doesn't seem to have any buyers.



on Apr 28, 2005
"The prefix Pan- means "all-encompassing," and therefore not exclusive."

Pan-nationalism, as defined in my article, is a nationalism philosophy targeting the nation in its widest sense, thus the "pan".

I don't care whether my article is consistent in the light of your definitions. It doesn't have to be. It only has to eb consistent in the light of the definitions I use.

Pan-Arabism exists. That it isn't successful can have all sorts of reasons, but the main reason is simply that it has been fought and beaten every time it came somewhat close to reaching its goal. Whether or not you consider all Arabs as one nation, or all Slavs, or even all Germans is completely irrelevant. Few fascists care about actual genetic relationships as much as their perception of them, and very few would care about cultural differences within their defined people.

So I ask again, what is your point?
on Apr 28, 2005
"The inevitable question in nationalism is who is part of the nation. If the US annexed all of Canada except Quebec, would you call that nationalism or imperialism. Would it be pan-nationalism?"

The inevitable question is the one answered by your current fuhrer or "spiritual leader" or great bazoonga or whatever he calls himself. I'm afraid there is not much room for rationality in that answer.

If the US annexed all of Canada (except Quebec, naturally), it probably wouldn't be pan-nationalism, because the US in its current state are not a country based on a bloodline, but a cultural nation.

If white Americans took over complete control and started exterminating or expelling minorities and then took over Canada to unite with the white Anglocanadians and continue to exterminate or expell minorities, then such an invasion would be pan-nationalist according to my definition.

Otherwise it could be imperialism or whatever comes to mind.

The key is that the "nation" that is the basis for the expansion must be based on a common bloodline first. That is the first major difference between pan-nationalism and other expansionist systems. Pan-nationalism is racist.
on Apr 28, 2005

If the US annexed all of Canada (except Quebec, naturally), it probably wouldn't be pan-nationalism, because the US in its current state are not a country based on a bloodline, but a cultural nation.

That has been stated by many people here recently, including myself.  And in the context of your article is very insightful.

Personally, I think we should annex all of Canada and Mexico.  Why?  Because they are there! (Just kidding!)

on Apr 28, 2005
Dr. Guy,

it appears that some readers have a problem with understanding the very first point of my article. It's probably my fault because I didn't make it clear enough, mentioning it only in the tag line and then labouring under the assumption that it was a given:

"Culture of nation against nation of culture"

The major point is this: pan-nationalism relates to beliefs of superiority of one race over others. This belief is not helt by the USA in principle. There is no "US-American" race. In fact, those in the US who believe such are very much opposed to George Bush's politics in Iraq. And the reason why they are is pretty much outlined in my article.

They disagree with the basic principle of a multi-cultural exchange. They want to keep cultures seperate, and, if they are from the left, "protect" them from each other.

I will write more about this later this week. Look forward to a third article "The Disease".

on Apr 28, 2005

I will write more about this later this week. Look forward to a third article "The Disease".

I look forward to it.  I found your debate with Diamondback to be fascinating, altho to me it does appear that you are arguing on tangents and not head to head. 

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