A classic Lula theological conclusion! Very quotable.

There we go with the greatest lack of continuity.

In Judaism G-d cannot have corporeal form and it is forbidden to pray to anything corporeal.

In Christianity the Christian god can have corporeal form and it is permissible to in front of a statue.

Studying Christ's death on the Cross from the New Testament.....

The reason why our Lord chose death on the Cross is becasue this way offered the complete satisfaction for our sins. Remember, man had offended God by a disobedience which sprang from pride when he desired to "be like unto God". The Divine Redeemer atoned for this pride by choosing the most painful and ignominious of deaths.

Under the Old Law the dead body of a criminal was hung upon a cross as a token that the man was cursed of God and rejected by the people and yet Jesus suffered Himself to be hung on the Cross while alive. For this reason St.Paul writes, "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, (meaning from sin)being made a curse for us: for it is written (Deut. 21:23) "Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree." So, by dying on the Cross this way, Christ abased Himself as far as He could, so as to offer satisfaction for our pride. In the same way, He atoned for our disobedience, for He became "obedient unto death, even to the death on the Cross." Phil. 2:8.

Our Lord chose to die on the Cross to show His unbounded love for us in a way whcih we could not mistake, and to move our hearts to love Him in return. When on the Cross, He suffered the severest torments of Body and Soul, pouring out His Precious Blood for our sakes, slowly, and drop by drop. "He hath loved us and washed us from our sins with His blood" says St.John in Apoc. 1:5.  

St. Augustine wrote, "See, see the wounds of the Crucified, the Blood of the dying, the ransom paid by the Redeemer; His Head is bowed down to kiss us; His heart is open to love us; His Arms are spread to embrace us' His whole Body is given to save us."

  Of the Cross itself Catholic theology teaches....

It stands upon the earth and rasies itself towards heaven, sto signify that our Lord, when lifted up upon the Cross between Heaven and earth, purified this sinful earth and reconciled it to Heaven. The four arms of the Cross signify the universality of Redemption, all men being saved by Christ crucified. They are symbols of the four parts of the world, pointing when the Cross is laid down, to the North, South, East and West and signifying that all men, all over the face of the globe, have a share in the fruits of Redemption. In the Cross alone is salvation, and from it flow all graces and blessings. Thus it is that in all her benedictions, the Chruch makes use of the sign of the Cross and whenever a Catholic makes the sign of the Cross, he confesses his faith in the crucified Son of God.

Prophecies were fulfilled by Our Lord Crucified.

Only for those who don't believe it.

It doesn't matter if you believe or don't believe in Jesus being G-d. The fact alone that he is supposed to be a corporeal form of G-d is very un-Jewish.

If you want a "continuation" of Judaism, you can have Islam. At least Islam has the same general idea of what the god is.

It's not what I want....it's what is!

What is...is God's one true revealed holy religion and the way He prescribed worship which is through God ordained sacrifice on an altar prepared and sanctified for the Lord....that can only be biblical Judaism full blossomed into Catholicism.

Under the OLd Law what was sacrificed was given to God and had to be wholly consumed in His honor. So the victims were killed and burnt, and wine was poured out and incense was burnt. These actions were meant to express on part of him who made the offerieng a thought of faith, and thanksgiving to God acknowleding we owe our life to Him. The bloody sacrifices were sacrifices of expiation, and for this reason the person who offered it laid his hand on the head of the victim as a token that he laid his sins on it, and sacrificed it as a substitute for himself.

Under the Old Law these sacrifices could not obtain inward sanctification, but only outward justice and a legal purification by which those who made it were made clean in the eyes of the law, and were enabled to take part in public worship of God. These sacrifices though always pointed to the one atoning Sacrifice of Christ as His is the only source of grace and pardon. The chief significance of biblical Judaism sacrifices lay in their being types of the most holy and world-redeeming Sacrifice of Christ.

The bloody sacrifices were typical of His bloody Sacrifice on the Cross, and the unbloody sacrifices were typical of the Holy Sacrifice of the HOly Mass and the meat-offerings, the clean oblation, of Holy Communion of the Blessed Eucharist.

All the sacrifices of the Old Law found their fulfillment in the sacrifice of Christ becasue He is the Real Sacrifice, and it had infinite efficacy to blot out all sin and win grace for mankind. It was real becasue Christ as True Man took the sins of the world upon Him. It had infinite efficacy becasue Christ is also True God and so able to make infinite satisfaction to the divine justice.

The Sacrifice of Christ is the true holocaust becasue He shed all His Blood and was consumed by the fire of infininite love in honor of His heavenly Father. It was a sin-offering in the highest sense of the wrod becasue it took away the sins of the owrld and cancelled the debt of mankind. It was the greatest of peace-offerings becasue it reconciled heaven to earth, and brought peace to the world. 

SInce OUr Lord offered Himself as Sacrifice the typical sacrifices of the OLd Mosaic Law have lost all efficacy and all legitimate existence.

The priesthood of the Old Mosaic Covenant was a type of priesthood of the New COvenant. As there was a graduation in the former, so is there in the latter. The graduation in the Catholic Chruch is twofold ...one of order according to Melchesidech...Bishops or High Priests, Priests and Deacons or ministers and one of jurisdiction.  ie power of ruling Pope, Patriarchs, Archbishops or Metropolitan, Bishops and priests. As in the OT, there was only one High Priest, so the CC considered as a whole has only one High Priest the BIshop of bishops, whom we call the Pope who is the visible representatvie of our Invisible High Priest, Jesus Christ. And even as the High Priest of the OT was called "Holy of the Lord" , so do we call the Pope, "Holy Father", becasue he fills the holiest office on earth.    

The Jewish priesthood was propagated by natural descent, the Catholic priesthood is perpetuated by spiritual descent, that is by means of Apostolic Holy Orders, which is one of the 7 Sacraments by the laying on of hands ...Book of Acts. The Jewish priests could only offer typical sacrifices, Catholic priests offer up to God the true Lamb of God who takest away the sins of the world. The former partook of earthly meat-offerings, the latter receive the priceless Flesh and Blood of the Divine Savior .

Catholics have great reverence for the priesthood for they are "ministers of Christ and the dispensers of the mysteries of God." 1Cor. 4:1.

As far as worship of Almighty God in the way He prescribed, Islam doesn't even come close. As a matter of fact, nothing in Protestantism does either.

Very un-Jewish?  It wasn't for all those Jews who accepted Him.  And if you read the OT and especially the Prophets, it's not like Almighty God didn't prepare the Jews for Him just as He did. Christ is the Emanuel --the "God with us".

And what's more, I accept it becasue that's the way that Almighty God decided to carry out His salvation plan and I'm not going to argue with you on that. Who's to tell God what to do or how to do it? Not me.

It's time for unbelieving Jews to drop their pride.

Yeah, right. The prophets prepared the Jews for a corporeal god and a Trinity by repeatedly claiming that G-d is not corporeal, that Jews are not allowed to pray to anything corporeal, and that G-d is ONE (not three, ONE).

It's time for unbelieving non-Jews to learn that their Messiah is theirs, not mine.

Lula,

Lula, Salvation was/is/will be through and by faith in G-D.  It has nothing to do with the style of Judaism.  We only see accounts of salvation by faith throughout the Bible.

Regarding sacrifices.  Can you show me one sin sacrifice that was not burnt in the Old Testament?

After Torah, weren't ALL sin sacrifices were to be done in the Temple. 

Jesus was neither burnt nor sacrificed in the Temple.

The question is still unanswered how he can be our sin sacrifice when he fails to meet these two requirements.

How then can he be the sin sacrifice?  This is G-D's requirement given to the people and MUST be met in order for Jesus to become our sin sacrifice.

How does this pertain to sin sacrifice?

 By "faith" here, what do you mean? Belief in God? If so, belief alone?

I'm going to answer as best I can, but have to ask: where is it found that "This is G-D's requirement given to the people and MUST be met in order for Jesus to become our sin sacrifice."?

As salvation history is in small stepping stages, Biblical Judaism was God's preparatory form of sacrificial religious worship before Christ came and was crucified for the sins of the whole world (not just those of the Jews!) and then a new and definitive stage brought about by Christ which completed God's revelation and structures of the Old Testament. We know the prophets prophecied the Messias and Christ fit everyone of them to a "T" including His death on the Cross, so that leaves me wondering where is it; how was it given that Jesus to be the sin sacrifice must have been burnt or sacrificed in the Temple?

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God's promise of salvation, given in Paradise after the Fall of our first parents, Gen.3:15, was ratified by the covenant he made with the patriarch Abraham Gen. 17, and renewed with Isaac and with Jacob Gen. 26; 28:12-15; later Moses sealed this covenant by offering victims Exod. 24:1-11.  In the New testament God keeps His promise: Jesus by His Death on the Cross, establishes the New and Eternal Covenant. The expression, "New Testament" is taken from the words Jesus uses when instituting the eucharistice Sacrifice St.Matt. 26:28; St.Mark 14:24; St.Luke 22:20 and 1Cor. 11:25. The Sacrifice Christ offers on the Cross is the new and definitive Covenant also known as the New Testament.  

Simply put, if you connect the dots, everything in Old Covenant Judaism leads to Christ's life, works, death and resurrection and thus to the New and Everlasting Covenant.

As you know there are various kinds of sacrifices....public and private sacrifices....public sacrifices were offered for the community as a whole...In Levit. 4:13-21, a young bull was offered as a sin offering for fault of the people. Christ's Atoning sacrifice was a very public and offered for the whole world.

Evidently sacrifices were offered in 4 different ways. In some cases with sin offerings (hattat) Lev. 4:1-5; 13; 6:24-33 and guilt or tresspass offerings 5:14-26; 7:1-6,  the sacrificial victim was partially burnt, the remainder being eaten by the offerer and the priests or by the priest alone.  

Lev. 1:3-9 demands a holocaust offering.....the most solemn form of sacrifice which involved the total destruction of the victim; only the victim's pelt was kept becoming the priest's property.....had to be a male, unblemished, and chosen from "pure" categories......victims could be offered by private persons as well as by people as a whole...  (We can easily see how this can be contrasted to Christ's sacrifice).

The OT contains many warnings that urged the Isrealite worshipper to greater obedience to the Lord than was occasioned by bloody sacrifices. Espeically with the prophets this is true. By their criticism of hypocritical, external worship, they paved the way for NT concepts of sacrifice. The prophet Osee 3:4; 9:4-5 considered the cessation of sacrifice a punishment for the nation. Jeremias envisioned a place for sacrifice in the purified worship of the future 17:26; 33:18.

Even though the prophets constantly called for more moral and interior religion, it wasn't coming becasue their attacks were part of the general criticism of a decadent and impious society.

Have you read Hebrews? It gives the most elaborate contrast of the Levitical sacrifices with the Sacrifice of Christ. For example Hebrews 7-10 depicts God as the initiator of the sacrifices of the Old Covenant, but he also maintains that these were merely foreshadowings of Christ in which He was both High Priest and victim. This goes along nicely with Lev. 1:3-9 sometimes called the "scapegoat" but more likely the gesture proclaimed the union between the victim and the offerer. He argued that the sacrifices of the Old Law were temporary whereas Christ's was eternal and unique. 8:1-2; 9:25-26; 10:11-14; 12:2. The holocausts of Isreal 10:5-10, the covenant sacrifices, 9:15-28, the sin offerings 10:1-10 and the atonement sacrifices, 9:1-28 had all been replaced by the unique effecacious and eternal sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

Hebrews 9:1-14 does a good job describing how the rites of the Old COvenant prefigure those of the New. v. 11 on speaks of Christ sealing the New Covenant once and for all...v. 12 has it He entered once for all into the Holy Place...securing an eternal redemption...v. 24 has it "for Christ has entered not into a sanctuary made of hands (Temple), a copy of the true one, but into Heaven itself..."

The sin offereings in 10:1-10 speaks how the sacrifices of the OLd Covenant could not take away sins and that Christ's offering has infinite value...v. 8 has it that God didn't take pleasure in burnt offerings and sin offerings as far as satisfying His Justice.

Christ's Sacrifice on the cross is the paschal mystery and central event in human history. Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross is the most perfect worshipful homage to God of all history and the Resurrection of Christ is the living testimony of God's accpetance to mankind's spotless Sacrifice.

In the paschal mystery, Jesus, Humanity's High Priest, offered Himself to God as an immolated Victim. Therefore, He fulfilled all the sacrificial foreshadowings of Calvary established by God's Old Covenant with men. He reconciled sinners to God by a lasting reconciliation and formed a new people cleansed by His redemptive Blood. His sacrifice on Calvary inauguarated the rite of the Christian cult and aptly set forth its Spirit sacramentally on the Cross.

Yes, because salvation is freely given.  Now Salvation is not to be confused with righteousness which then brings in the persons walk or works (regarding the Torah).  There is no other action that we can receive Salvation or else Salvation is by works (which we know is false).

Excellent Question: Deuteronomy 12 covers this issue probably the most directly.

"But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:"(Deut 12 5-6)

This is directly pointing that when the Temple is built all sacrifices will take place there.

"Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest: But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee." (Deut 12:13-14)

This is pretty clear that no other places are allowed.

And Lula this is the crux of the issue.  If he was to meet the jot or tittle of the prophecy then Jesus would also meet the criteria of the sin sacrifice for our atonement. 

Lula, The old Covenant didn't go away.  Lev, Ex, are full of 'Everlasting Covenant' just like the phrase that pertains to the Rainbow.  Did the Covenant with the rainbow go away? I think not.

All of the sacrifices you mentioned are burnt and offered INSIDE the Temple.  Christ did not meet these two requirements.

Exactly, and Jesus was neither burnt and not offered in the Temple as he was taken OUTSIDE the temple.

Don't argue that these are supposed to be foreshadowings, however, this affirms my stance that the sin sacrifice needs to be fulfilled.

There are so many verses in Torah that contain the word 'Everlasting' next to it.  I find it preposterous to consider the 'Old Law' (as you refer to the Torah) as a temporary when Torah clearly says it is everlasting.

Yes I know what Hebrews says but just because they say it is true doesn't make it so.  The Torah is clear about the sin sacrifices (burnt and in the Temple). 

The Pesach lamb was not a sin sacrifice.

Just because you keep repeating this doesn't mean it is true. 

Adventure-Dude, I love your investigative spirit!

Thank you, I accept this as quite the compliment coming from you. 

I was a little concerned as to whether you thought I was 'hijacking' your thread but thought this was an appropriate topic that coincided with the thread.

Can you tell me more about the hebrew word Khataw-aw and Ahvone?

The strongs leads me to believe that essentially the differences between these two hebrew words are.

Khataw-aw - sin, impurity, etc with regards to the sacrifice

Ahvone - sin, essentially the transgression of the Torah.