Gitmo, of course, is not on American soil.

Sorry LW but your dead wrong on this. Gitmo DAMN sure is considered American soil just as much as any of our embassy's on foreign soil are.

Sorry LW but your dead wrong on this. Gitmo DAMN sure is considered American soil just as much as any of our embassy's on foreign soil are.

No, Gitmo is Cuban.  We just have a 100 year lease that Castro cannot get out of.

"Gitmo is Cuban."

Are there any laws against torture and wrongful imprisonment in Cuba?

#18 by Dr. Guy Monday, June 20, 2005 Sorry LW but your dead wrong on this. Gitmo DAMN sure is considered American soil just as much as any of our embassy's on foreign soil are. No, Gitmo is Cuban. We just have a 100 year lease that Castro cannot get out of.

It's "still" considered American soil just like our embassies are.

drmiler: source?

From Answers.com

U.S. Naval Station Guantanamo Bay was established in 1898, when the U.S. obtained control of Cuba from Spain at the end of the Spanish-American War, following the 1898 invasion of Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. government obtained a perpetual lease that began on February 23, 1903 from the newly independent Cuban state. The terms hold that the U.S., for the purposes of operating coaling and naval stations, has "complete jurisdiction and control" of the area, while the Republic of Cuba is recognized to retain ultimate sovereignty.

Not sure of any Constitutional requirement that prisoners be supplied the Bible or Koran at all. I think in most prisons just material is a priveledge you earn, and that can be taken away. Given the descriptions of prisoner behavior at Gitmo, I find it hard to believe they have earned anything.

Don't you think that taking away someone's Holy Book is wholeheartedly wrong no matter the situation? Just another ignorant solution that would only deepen the resentment towards the US throughout the Muslim world. Like it or not, that solution would ultimately get more GI's killed in the Middle East which makes it pretty clear to me that you have no loved ones in the military serving overseas. If you did, you'd never suggest inflaming the so called 'raghead terrorists' the GI's have to face every day. Tolerance people, will make things more peaceful.
As Mr. Chomsky said so eloquently:
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

Oh, yes, don't make the terrorists mad, give them what they want. That'll put them in their place... That ignorant, non-confrontational policy has been followed for decades and we find ourselves where we are now.

It's sad when people like R.H. attack their own, ignorant of the fact the people they are defending hate them even more. You just end up alienating the people who want to protect you, and gaining no ground with the people who wish you harm.

Owning a book isn't freedom of expression, and prisoners have many, many rights taken away when they are incarcerated. You're just, again, inventing rights that never existed so you can complain that they've been taken away.

From Simon
I admit, I do not know a lot about Muslims, however I do know that, although I am not a very devout Christian, I would expect to be able to have a book of my own choice to read, if incarcerated a long way from home, by a country I despised, for a crime that I probably didn't commit. If that book happened to be the bible, I would be angry if it was pissed on or violated in any other way.

From Rekki-House
Don't you think that taking away someone's Holy Book is wholeheartedly wrong no matter the situation? Just another ignorant solution that would only deepen the resentment towards the US throughout the Muslim world. Like it or not, that solution would ultimately get more GI's killed in the Middle East which makes it pretty clear to me that you have no loved ones in the military serving overseas. If you did, you'd never suggest inflaming the so called 'raghead terrorists' the GI's have to face every day. Tolerance people, will make things more peaceful.

Hmmm. Well, why don't you try getting detained. thrown in jail, arrested, or whatever you want to call it, in...oh...say Saudi Arabia and asking for a Holy Bible. Oh...wait...that's right...it's illegal to own a Holy Bible in Saudi Arabia. Getting caught with one will get you arrested. So I guess that request will fall on deaf ears. Try entering the country with one. It will be confiscated and destroyed. Funny, though, you don't hear anyone screaming bloody murder about them. You don't see Christians any where in the world rioting and murdering their own over the Saudi's descration of the Bible. And I haven't seen anyone calling Saudi prisons "the gulags of our time". Funny how that works. Huh?

JollyFE

I realize that many of the left would like to envision that the detainees at Gitmo were all innocent peanut farmers who were rounded up by jackbooted thugs, but the likelihood is that's probably not the case. While there are probably innocent individuals at Gitmo (just as there are in many jails and prisons within our own country), does it not seem disingenuous to oversell the presumption of innocence of the detainees while denying the US government the same presumption of innocence?

This article was well written, but it missed a point it COULD have made; that is, simply asking the Muslim community: which is the worse desecration: the guards' treatment of the Koran, or attacking innocent civilians using the Koran as justification? Anyone who believes Islam to be a religion of peace would have to argue the latter.

"the guards' treatment of the Koran, or attacking innocent civilians using the Koran as justification?"

I'm afraid I am sometimes rather pessimistic about this.

It seems to me that very often the Muslim community, specifically the Arab Muslim community, do indeed believe that treating a book badly is worse than treating a human being badly, specifically when the Koran is used as an excuse for the latter or when the victim is a Jew.

I think it is up to the Muslim community to be outraged over the murder of innocent Jews in the name of their religion. If they are not, I will have to assume that they believe that a book is worth more than a Jew. And as long as the Muslim community have not understood the value of a human life (relative to ANY book), there is just no common ground for a discussion. And that means war.

Folks,

I have never placed any comment on any subject on the internet before, however, having read the above, I feel I should make my point. I do not wish to cause offense, and frankly do not care if I provoke a reply, as I will probably not come back here to raed them, but here goes.

I used to believe, (and still do, for most things in the world), in the idealistic view that everyone is equal, have rights, are decent people deep down inside, and that there is no justification for injustice on any grounds. I think we would all like to believe this is the case.

However, whilst I have the utmost respect for all peoples rights to believe their religion, and for all nationalities of the world, including Iraqies, Afghans, and Americans, one thing recently made me feel that some things go beyond this.

People can believe what they want, as long as it doesn't affect me or hurt anyone else. But, when I go on the internet and see a video of a group of men cutting off the head of an innocent man with a knife, while he lies there screaming and begging for his life, it makes me feel so sick that if you gave me a gun and put me into a room with them, I honestly don't know what I would do. (But I certainly know what I would do if that was a member of MY familty they slaughtered!)

These people, who call themselves religeous men, forfeit the right to ANY respect when they are caught. They have NO rights, and deserve NOTHING from any civilised country.

I agree that you cannot assume that all these prisoners are guilty, and it is not beyond possibility that there are some innocent amongst them, but I assume that they were all captured in a combat zone in some sort of incriminating situation. It is possible that a soldier simply chose someone at random to arrest, but I doubt it.

Everyone has a different view on this, as evidenced above, and I am certainly not trying to change anyone's mind on the subject, but I feel that, if the evidence is there, and certainty is established, then any rights that person would once have been entitled to are gone, and they should be treated no better than the sub-human scum they are.

Thanks for reading.

"Well, why don't you try getting detained. thrown in jail, arrested, or whatever you want to call it, in...oh...say Saudi Arabia and asking for a Holy Bible. Oh...wait...that's right...it's illegal to own a Holy Bible in Saudi Arabia. Getting caught with one will get you arrested."

Perhaps we should learn from our Muslim friends.

Israel could, for example, announce that they recognise the wisdom of the Saudi princes and will henceforth treat Palestinians the same way Saudi Arabia treats Jews. From then on, it would be Saudi Arabia's responsibility to improve the conditions of the Palestinians. However Saudi Arabia feels Jews and Palestinians should be treated, it would be implemented. Very easy.