Israel is fine with a two-state solution. Israel is also fine with Gaza and the West-Bank being part of Egypt and Jordan. Israel has been fine with those two solutions when they already came up. I think we can stop worrying about “Zionist extremists” who don’t exist.
I have seen east-Jerusalem. I don’t think Israel wants it. It’s the most holy site of Judaism that Arabs demand and that Israel wants to keep, not the entire city. Let’s divide Jerusalem, Israelis won’t mind. The Jewish parts and the Old City will be part of Israel and the Arab parts in the east can be a part of Invaderland/Palestine. The only problem is that the Arabs in Jerusalem might not want that. Whenever such an option comes up, thousands of them register for Israeli passports. Hm…
Most international proposals ignore the fact why Israel is fighting.The proposals don't even address how they would get all the Jews dead. In fact, the proposals seem to be built to allow them to survive. The world think that that is not a problem? Look at what the PLO and Hamas say about their wishes. They want a Jew-free Invaderland and they have said so often enough. Most peace plans don’t address that issue.
A two-state solution plan has already been implemented, before 1967. And it could have been implemented by treaty in 1968 when Israel offered to give Gaza and the West-Bank back in exchange for peace.
And what about the refugees? The Jewish refugees from Arab countries don’t want to go back, they have nothing to expect but death and torture. But the Arab refugees from Israel, despite all the things they say about Jews, don’t seem to be expecting such a fate and demand a “return” (to lands they have never lived on, given that it has been three generations).
If we accepted the Saudi plan (1967 borders and return of the “refugees”) we would be back in 1948, a situation which caused the Arabs to start the first war. I don’t see how that would be a good solution, unless the “solution” is about giving the Arabs another shot.
I guess the entire thing really depends on the Palestinian Arabs. Vote for a damn government whose priority is making the country viable and not to destroy Israel and it’s done. That’s all it takes.
Perhaps the PLO can do it now.
But do Palestinian Arabs even want this? Is a viable country of their own really important to women who teach their children that committing suicide while killing Jews is a good thing? Is a viable country of their own really important to sons who would rather kill themselves than not kill a Jew?
Here’s my take on a peace plan, and I realise most independent-minded Israelis will disagree with it, but I think it’s a good idea:
1. The King of Jordan is declared King of Israel and officially enters Jerusalem in that capacity.
2. Israel will remain an independent country with its own democratic government, the king will be a figurehead.
3. Israel will annex the West-Bank and Jordan and Israel will form a citizenship-federation in which all Jews born in either country will be Israeli citizens and all Arabs born in either country will be Arab citizens. (We can find solutions for the other nationalities. For example Druzim can become Israelis too. Bedouins can have their own citizenship system or whatever they wish.)
4. Both Jews and Arabs will be subjects of the descendant of the Sharif of Mecca, i.e. the King of Jordan.
5. The king will govern Transjordan directly and Cisjordan (Israel) only through the selected Israeli government. Israel won’t have a president any more, only a “Lieutenant Governour” elected by the Israeli people who represents the country towards the joint monarchy and, representing the king in right of Jerusalem, towards the international community.
6. During his inauguration ceremony the king will refer extensively to the Quran and celebrate the fact that Allah has helped his people return to their land. He will point out how modern Babylonians tried to prevent it and how another Muslim like Cyrus 2500 years wgo was Allah’s tool to make Allah’s will prevail, even when it was done in the most complicated, roundabout way.
7. Israel can keep the border fence until the attacks stop. Israel will keep all the power she currently has and give it up only voluntarily at her own time.
8. Gaza can be part of this union. Israeli and Transjordanian forces can keep the peace as needed.
9. The Golan Heights remain part of Israel. Syria had no part in the war, and deserves no reward for stopping the attacks once Syria knew she was too weak. Syria will be offered a chance to surrender to the united monarchy.
10. As will Lebanon, which if she decides to join, will become an independent duchy lead by three dukes (Shiite, Sunni, Druze) and an archduke (Christian) under the nominal authority of the king.
11. We will then wait for the Arab and Muslim world to condemn Israel for making the descendant of Muhammed king of Jerusalem.
12. At that point the king will make it clear that his ultimate goal is control over ALL THREE holy cities of Islam. We will then work from that starting point. (The point is not to invade “Saudi” Arabia, but to make it absolutely clear that Jerusalem is as negotiable as Mecca, given that it is the other place of worship.)
13. The new United Monarchy, with control over the advanced military technology of Israel's and the Israeli army as well as excellent ties to Europe, the US, and Russia and other important Arab monarchies (Morocco), will become the unquestioned regional superpower. Iran will not be able to compete with the new Arab Empire and the Gulf will become the energy source for the economic powerhouse at the Jordan river.
A modern army, incidentally, in no way guarantees that two dozen school children just happen to be outside the school building when it is hit by an exploding rocket.
And I don't think that Hamas really believe that Allah is on their side. Hamas are cynics.
Hamas is nothing but terroist that im sure the palistinian people would love no better to get rid of... once hamas is surpressed I am sure that area can be somewhat peacefull... but until then...
Hamas is nothing but terrorist that im sure the palistinian people would love no better to get rid of
Yes.
But realise that the west is not making this easy. Help for Palestinian Arabs depends much on how loudly they complain about the Israelis. No European country gives a lot of aid to oppressed peoples just because they are oppressed.
I don't think Palestinian Arabs can afford to welcome the Israelis. The Arab countries and Europe would just not send any help and Gaza would depend solely on Israel's good will. (Notice that neither Europe nor the Arabs cared when Hamas murdered hundreds in Gaza two years ago.)
Notice that Europe has actually increased the help given to the Palestinian Authority after Hamas won the elections. And peaceful Arab groups are not even on Europe's (or America's) radar. You cannot make money from Europe or the Arab League by promoting peace and co-existence.
Palestinian Arabs are between a rock and a hard place. When they get closer to peace with Israel, Europe and the Arab League send less money. (And obviously money flow from Iran stops completely.)
Leuki wrote:
I disagree. I have faith. I have met many Arabs and Muslims who are not only willing to live with Israel but who actively support the country. The Druzim and Bedouins fighting for Israel are concept proof. But they need our help. They need us to acknowledge them. King Abdullah's great grand father made a pact with the Zionists. He didn't do it because he wanted the Jews dead. Remember the Shoah. And compare it to Germany today. Things change.
I disagree. I have faith.
I have met many Arabs and Muslims who are not only willing to live with Israel but who actively support the country.
The Druzim and Bedouins fighting for Israel are concept proof. But they need our help. They need us to acknowledge them. King Abdullah's great grand father made a pact with the Zionists. He didn't do it because he wanted the Jews dead.
Remember the Shoah. And compare it to Germany today. Things change.
I wish I thought such "change" was realistic. I really do.
I find the following article
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2007/10/terrifying-brilliance-of-islamic.html
expresses the reasons why more cogently than anywhere else I've seen.
BTW, nice blog. I've lurked here now and then for some time.
I have seen such change happening in Iraq.
The article is badly researched and the author doesn't seem to know much about Islam or comparative religion.
See the articles I have written about Muslim support for Israel. Their support is based on the Quran. The original meme regarding Israel propagated by Islam was that Israel is the Jewish home land. That is why Saladin called on Jews to come back as their exile was over and that is why the Quran contains an entire Sura (17) explaining the concept.
Want to know what the Quran says about Arabs? Here is an example:
The Arabs are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger. But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.
9.97
And about Israel:
To Moses We did give Nine Clear Signs: As the Children of Israel: when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him: "O Moses! I consider thee, indeed, to have been worked upon by sorcery!
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!
So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him.
And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.
17.101-104
You see, you can read the Quran in different ways, and traditionally Muslims read it rather differently today.
Also note that Quranic Arabic is not a uniting language. Nobody speaks it, few people can read it, the majority of Muslims don't even understand modern Arabic. The most anti-Israel "Muslims" are Iranian Shiites, followers of Khomeini. They speak Iranian languages and hardly ever read the Quran.
Muhammed said that the Quran must be read in Arabic and that translations are mere interpretations. He had a point. But the problem is that now all Muslims are reading the Quran in Arabic and don't know what it means.
The Quran itself speaks of "Arabic" as the language people understand, and that's why the Quran was "revealed" in Arabic. The original idea was that people would understand the Arabic, not that they wouldn't.
Thanks.
You might enjoy my home page also: http://web.mac.com/ajbrehm/Home/About_Me.html